The Existence Of God

[Bloop?]

I think the problem with the argument in this thread - despite the fact that it started illegitimately - is that everyone here is talking about different concepts of God.

Some people can't seem to grasp "God" as being seperate from religion. God does not refer to any faith, God is not the teachings of any faith. Faith, religion etc. is a seperate thing; a man-made construct.

Art, i think your confusing God and religion...

We created religion.... God didnt, and God isnt religion either. - Chorionice Ice

I think chorio has it right ... God is everything, God is everything before the big-bang singularity, yet god is of no consequence. Try using God as a concept rather than God as a finite being; God is an entity that is completely detached from anything that is here on earth; yet god IS everything here on earth. "Infinity" is not the right word but it's the first to come to mind.

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In case you didn't notice I'm argumenting on both god and religion. That even if god exists, current religions are fake. - rat crazy

"current" religions are fake ...

ALL religion will always be fake. The human mind is an instrument of illusion. It doesn't tell us the truth, it "interprets" it's own 'version' of the truth.

We will never understand the universe/God in it's entirety because to be able to do that would be, to be God itself. We are a finite being; our minds have limits, our duration has a limit. Understanding infinity would be to BE infinity itself.

What we're aiming for is a version of the "truth" which works. We're looking for a 'theory' which 'works' in that it can explain the Universe and explain 'God' as closely as possible, we're looking for a theory which can make accurate predictions. "Religion" is at the same time 'outdated science' and didactic propaganda - in that it is not necessarily "bad"; but that it is innacurate.

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I only have a few things to say on this topic (no flames about not following the discussion). I believe God is real. Why?

First off, something had to create everything. Even if the Big Bang theory is true, what created the small materials which gathered into the Big Bang? Using science, mass and energy must be conserved. This means that it cannot just be created by nature into the little materials that made up the Big Bang. A supernatural event had to create that mass and energy, aka God. - Jedirieb

Now, let's not misunderstand each other here, I also believe God is real. But i don't believe God is a being like ourselves, I don't believe God cares for us; cares about us. God is just a useful concept for 'that which must have created the beginning'; for 'that which must have BEEN the beginning'

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How does everyone feel about the idea that their was a beginning, but their will BE no end. 90% of the matter required to halt the expansion of the universe - and recollapse itself - is still unaccounted for*. That doesn't mean we will never find it. We still may, but it does pose a lot of difficult questions. Like, how can we appear from nothing yet not dissapear to nothing. That everything is not "cyclical"; that we cannot dissapear to nothing.

*Hence, the need for dark-matter

How does everyone feel about the theory that our universe was a result of two colliding 2d universes?

How does everybody feel about string theory? The fact that it's basis is in maths - very platonic. The fact that their appears to be an equation to predict everything. The fact that we could be the "answer"? That we could be 'an equation' post-expansion? That mathematics IS god. Or that our understanding of the ever-evolving mathematical field is as close to God as we can hope to achieve.

How does everyone feel about special relativity? The fact that we have our own unique measurement of time? The fact that light travels towards us at the speed of light, no matter how fast we travel towards it. It appears that light is unique to each "viewer". That light has singled ME out as the unique viewer. Yet, at the same time, it appears to have singled YOU out as the unique viewer also. The fact that light operates for each person, differently; that it singles out each person as "Special".

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If you can put up with my incoherence, I may come back later and make all of this more succinct - or as succinct as it is possible TO be, while talking about God/"God".

[MonicaTTmed]

did he just want to tease us with so many places to be even though we could never get to any of them?

Just because we havn't got to them yet, doesn't mean we won't.... It wasn't so long ago that people doubted that man could ever leave this planet...

Relativity.

Some people can't seem to grasp "God" as being seperate from religion. God does not refer to any faith, God is not the teachings of any faith. Faith, religion etc. is a seperate thing; a man-made construct.

I noticed.

God is an entity that is completely detached from anything that is here on earth; yet god IS everything here on earth.

Contradictory babble.

Try using God as a concept rather than God as a finite being

Well most theists believe in god as a being, so which definition am I going to use?

I mean, even a few thousand people could define "salt" as the infinity before the big bang, a concept detached from material reality but which also is everything in material reality. That doesn't change that when the vast majority of people say "The fish needs more salt", they're talking about something specific.

Ex.: Most theists could say, "God hates evil but not sinners (those who do evil)." Not only does that imply that "God" is a personal being capable of hate, it also implies that this being has defined "evil" universally.

i find it curious that in the absence of a reasonable explanation people so readily turn to the concept of God as a reason.

[Bloop?]

God is an entity that is completely detached from anything that is here on earth; yet god IS everything here on earth. - Me

It's intended to be contradictory. "God" IS the great contradiction. "God" IS what we will never be able to understand

so you agree with me, when i say ...

Some people can't seem to grasp "God" as being seperate from religion. God does not refer to any faith, God is not the teachings of any faith. Faith, religion etc. is a seperate thing; a man-made construct. - Me

I noticed. - Monica

Yet, you try to disprove my arguments by saying...

Most theists could say, "God hates evil but not sinners (those who do evil)." - Monica

I think what I'm trying to say, though obviously not in a coherent enough manner is. God is a concept which you can't personify. You can't make God appear human, to have human features. Yet in a wierd duality, God is what humanity is composed of.

We are all made up from debris of "God" yet God is not composed of humanity.

I mean, what IS humanity? On a meta-physical level, what makes us different to anything else on this planet?

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I mean, even a few thousand people could define "salt" as the infinity before the big bang, a concept detached from material reality but which also is everything in material reality. - Monica

And, I think you've hit the crux of the problem...

Although It hasn't struck me until now, I'm defining God AS the great infinity. So switch "salt" for God and re-read.

[cool hand luke]

Those of you that believe in God's existence and that He created everything in the universe.....Good. This means you should also believe in the Bible. If you believe, then your opinions about God without scripture is flawed. If you continue to try explain God in your own understanding, and through your life experience ONLY, then you are just giving us your point of view and have created your own god. If you are looking for the ultimate explanation/definition of God, you need to know that you will understand God on His terms not yours.

Warning, Warning, Warning: There are Bible verses up ahead. For those of you that advocate political correctness, modern culturalism, religious spirits, evolution, and just basically calling evil good and good evil, now hear this. This is fair warning to let you know that the next few lines are not for the pansy hearted. Raw unadulterated truth is about to be uttered.

2 Timithy 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness….

Psalms 1:16
The fool hath said in his heart, there is no God…….

Romans 1:20-23
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power Godhead: so that they are without excuse. < see: when you stand before God you will be “without excuse”.

[MonicaTTmed]

Warning, Warning, Warning: There are Bible verses up ahead. For those of you that advocate political correctness, modern culturalism, religious spirits, evolution, and just basically calling evil good and good evil, now hear this. This is fair warning to let you know that the next few lines are not for the pansy hearted. Raw unadulterated truth is about to be uttered.

2 Timithy 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness….

Psalms 1:16
The fool hath said in his heart, there is no God…….

Romans 1:20-23
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power Godhead: so that they are without excuse. < see: when you stand before God you will be “without excuse”.

Wow, so again, the bible is true because...it says so in the bible. Great circular reasoning.

It's intended to be contradictory. "God" IS the great contradiction. "God" IS what we will never be able to understand

So it's entirely meaningless - not only in terms of actually interfering with reality a la Yahweh, but meaningless to believe in.

And, I think you've hit the crux of the problem...

Although It hasn't struck me until now, I'm defining God AS the great infinity. So switch "salt" for God and re-read.

So, then, it's meaningless. Just as you can't do algebra with infinity (infinity/2 = infinity), you can't really make any statements about God at all. Ever. Not even "God exists" because God is supposedly a contradiction.

[Bloop?]

religion is about easing the existential angst ... but finding God is not

[Hugobaaarainz]

This is what most people have in mind when we talk about God: a white, bearded, noble and fearsome adult male.

[Hugobaaarainz]

I read yesterday that mother's cell not only migrate in the fetus but can stay there for the reminder of one's life. They aid in various tasks like boosting the immune system, and being mostly stem cells they can also mutate to build any sort of cell. Isn't it wondrous? The fetus' cells also reside in their mother's body, up to 51 years (record so far) after birth. Life is peculiar.

Yesterday I saw Tarkovsky masterpiece classic 1971 movie SOLARIS. I'm no talking about the new american version of a few years ago with George Clooney, a forgettable remake. In the original version, Solaris is an ocean planet, but also a sentient being, à la Gaia - but a different Gaia than our own planet, re. in its form and manifestation. Human and Solaris both try to communicate to each others, but it's difficult, being of entirely different form - but not necessarily of an entirely different essence.

A freakingly fascinating movie. One of the movie's good lines: 'Man need Man, and Man need Earth'; that there's a pointlessness in trying to transcend Earth - Earth and the other humans as a journey and a destination. For there's an incommensurable loneliness of Man in the universe.

Anyway, what's is it so hard to admit that matter is sentient - in its own way?

For me God is the sentient component of the Universe.

[Hugobaaarainz]

Tarkovsky won the Vatican Prize for this movie - for its 'divine content'. Ever heard of the vatican giving a prize for a sci-fi movie?
Anyone familiar with this director work?

Truly a glimpse in what higher Art can be - a window on the divine.

[SoapScrum]

Come on, people. Is it impossible to believe in both God and scientific principles, and create your own explanations for things based on a combination of them?
Hey, someone needs to be a moderate in all this...

God made monkey? monkey evolved into human?


PS: I love you monica