Our president, not many threads about him.

[Mighty Mouse]

SO, now we get into the opinions. I believe that, right now, republicans are blocking most progress in the government. The problem is, without their INPUT into the situation, no one is going to be happy with the outcome. They have to try to push INTO president obama, not push AWAY

It's not the minority that has to adjust its policies to the majority. That is the tyranny of the majority which the Founding Fathers feared when they set up the bicameral system. Otherwise we'd just have the House and no filibusters. It's the majority that should listen to the minority to bring together overwhelming majority, not just simple majority.

Just as arguing AGAINST the majority is form of input, so is refusing to be part of it. Whether or not the opponents of Obamacare has good intentions is only for them, their God and their constituents.

[PGG]

Fair enough, but democracy is, in its roots, based off of the majority. That's how we decide every representative position in the federal government. Sociology states that humans, as a group, need a defined leader. Granted, that leader's relative power decreased exponentially as the group gets bigger, but that's when democracy is supposed to shine. From my point of view, the healthcare bill has changed a lot because of the republicans since its inception. Doesn't mean it's on the republican's side, but they have influenced it. What I don't know for sure is what they contributed to the bill. They spent most of the time refusing to even negotiate with Obama, instead having McCain spend most of his nationally broadcasted chat time taking digs at obama to give the propaganda mills more chit to churn out, on both sides.

Also, on the topic of healthcare, my teacher made this flowchart for us. It illustrates the transfer of money in the current healthcare system. Think of it what you will, but I thought it was a good illustration:
http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/3026/picture22w.png

[wOOt]

I believe it;s refered to as socialism. Was talking to my 73 yr old dad yesterday. He said under this new health care bill he would already be qualified as not being a asset to society so when the health care bill is all said and done, if he wants meds he will have to buy them outta his pocket. Worked 63 yrs served in Korea only to spend all his retirement cash on meds.

I'd take GW again anyday. You were duped into a lie of change, and the insane thing is, most are believing another lie. The smartest thing Obama did was put 2 bigger idiots below him so no one will impeach or shoot him. And who said he was not brilliant!!

I guess that secret Bill of Texas succeeding from the union may not be such a rumor, anyone wanna come to Texas? Come on over MM we'll have fish heads, Bisquits and white gravy, mmmmmmmm! You got to try my Tripe tho.

[Mighty Mouse]

Sociology does not state that people need a defined leader at all times. It needs a defined leader in times of crisis. That is why the Greeks and Romans had their way of government behave differently in times of peace and in times of war. In peace, simple majority should not be acceptable, whereas in war/crisis, it'll have to do. I think that's the subtlety you are missing.

I think the bill has changed more to adjust to the conservative viewpoint, be it Democrat or Republican. It had to avoid being the ultra-liberal stance which would not have been palatable to more than half the country. It just happens that there are more conservatives on the Republican party.

Maybe an example of Republican input:

On February 25 Obama held a Bipartisan Health Care Summit at the Blair House. Among the topics discussed were the rising costs of health care and unfair insurance practices. There were several issues that Republicans and Democrats shared agreement on, such as: preventing waste and fraud in Medicare and Medicaid; addressing medical malpractice reform; reforming the insurance market; and giving individuals more choices in coverage, and giving small businesses the opportunity to pool coverage for their employees.[125]

On March 2 Obama sent a letter to Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi, Senator Harry Reid, Senator Mitch McConnell, and Representative John Boehner. In the letter he referenced four Republican ideas that he thought deserved to be explored more. Those ideas were: random undercover investigations of health care providers that receive reimbursements from Medicare, Medicaid, and other Federal programs; expanding the proposed grants of $23 million to $50 million for states that demonstrate alternatives to resolving medical malpractice disputes; increasing Medicaid payments to doctors; and the possibility of expanding Health Savings Accounts, and making clearer language in the President’s proposal to allow for high deductible plans.[126] He also spoke of provisions in the legislation that he felt should not be in there, such as the Medicare Advantage provision that provided transitional extra benefits to Florida residents, and the Nebraska FMAP provision which would have covered that state's expanded Medicare coverage in perpetuity.

@w00t: sounds good, but I'm on a diet. Depends on which fish heads. I love tripe in all forms.

[Blind Cide]

but democracy is, in its roots, based off of the majority. That's how we decide every representative position in the federal government. Sociology states that humans, as a group, need a defined leader. Granted, that leader's relative power decreased exponentially as the group gets bigger, but that's when democracy is supposed to shine.

Your view as stated is a common misconception and most of our politicians are happy to keep the issue quiet. We started out as a representative republic. The government's purpose and power is defined by the Constitution. The only place democracy is supposed to play a role is in electing the individuals to operate the system.

We are not supposed to be deciding democratically which individual rights we will violate next. What we have now is mob rule, or more euphemistically, socialism.

The historical genius and resulting success of the USA was that we had a limited and predictable government. As we have moved further from a limited government, that expanded government has been bought from the politicians by private entities who use that favor to violate our rights.

Now our politicians are claiming that to restore fairness they need yet further power. I think we need to get the fox out of the henhouse. Our economic health should be based on the quality and productivity of efforts by those participating. Instead, the uncertainty of what the 900 Lb. gorilla in the white house and congress will do next has more influence.

Any proper endevour by the government should be scrutinized by whether it furthers the protection of individual rights, not by whether it violates them "too much".

[Hoplite]

That dirty rotten Glenn Beck has brain washed Al Sharpton and forced him call Obama a socialist! (Boy he's powerful isn't he rogue?)




And our bearded buddy to the south, Fidel applauds our new health care.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Cuban-lea ... l?x=0&.v=1

Al Sharpton and Castro seem to think that we are on our way to socialism.

Now there are rumblings of silencing Glenn Beck and those like him....by using FCC regulations. Interesting. This is how benign socialism becomes Soviet/Chinese style communism

There's a great campaign slogan for all Dems who are up for election. "Castro Approved".

[LGM]

How about a little Jon Stewart montage?

A nice compilation on the tea party gang...

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-m ... ea-bagging

[NUTS!]

@BC
Thank you, I think that people forget that we were set up as a Republic. Sadly its when countries become more "mob ruled" we start to lose the voice of the little people.

I love how the "tea party" is really starting to piss people off and getting negative media coverage. I dare you to sit down with someone you know who is a tea bagger and find out what it really means. Your not bigoted are you?

[Baba]

We were set up as a Republic ruled by white men who owned slaves and opposed suffrage for women.
I'm sure they weren't bigoted though.

[Mighty Mouse]

Bigotry is relative. They were pretty progressive for their time. Some didn't own slaves, and others made their slaves freemen after their death, which was not a common practice. Let's not impose our values over eras in the past.