Our president, not many threads about him.

[44]

how about we lower your taxes, let government only handle public goods, and you donate the savings to charity. Why is the government your only solution?

I won't give it to charity. I'll stick it in my kids college fund, or my retirement fund.

@Smacky -- CBO.

And, the "unfunded mandate", "increased spending" argument doesn't hold water. You can't solve the deficit without reforming healthcare. And you can't make credible, cost-based arguments about this bill if you supported a party that has never tried to fix the problem...and passed that prescription drug bill three years ago.

The opposition to this bill is entirely emotional. It is fueled by selfishness, foolishness and/or racism, and it's masquerading as fiscal conservatism.

The test of our progress is not whether we add to the abundance of those who have much. It is whether we provide enough to those who have little.

[get some]

44 pickin up stinkfingers slack. i like it.

i am one of the 30 million without healthcare coverage so i am curious as to how and when this will affect me. i'm withholding opinion as i have yet to read the 2000 pages and that appears to be the bar to have a credible say here.

[THE V]

Nobody here has read the entire 2000 pages. Heck I doubt many (if any) of the representatives that passed the bill actually read it. I'm pretty sure not a single journalist/talk show host who are currently exhorting their interpretation of the bill has actually read it either.

BTW

Love the FDR quote 44. Just need to expand that concept past the invisible borders a wee bit.

[GRRReat]

^^ Wow someone in the same boat as me.

[LGM]

The test of our progress is not whether we add to the abundance of those who have much. It is whether we provide enough to those who have little.

Love the quote 44. Needs to be on this page too.

It nails what I see as the difference between the points of view. One is all about me, what do I have, how can I keep it all for myself and not let it be pried from my grasp by anyone. The other is about improving society and providing justice. One is mean and selfish. The other is interested in making life bearable for everyone.

Of course I'm oversimplifying. There are many exceptions to that black and white view. I recall Smacky mentioning starting a foundation to help kids, but he's not in favor of government being the vehicle for health care, etc. He'd rather see private solutions. (correct me if I'm wrong on that one, Smacky) I know republican folks who have successful businesses and they donate thousands to orphanages and help fund clean water, food, and shelter for kids in Haiti. Again, they would not be in favor of government doing that, but freely spend to make it happen.

I appreciate the effort they make privately. However, this has historically not provided the scope of help it takes to improve conditions for many people. Government intervention in poverty and lack of medicine is another choice. Sounds like 44 is good with that. I'm also OK with that. However, my tax burden is much lower. (dang... you pay more in tax than I make in a year) I also make donations to help with causes I see worthwhile.

I do not think the doom and gloom predictions are going to pan out. I applaud the President's willingness to take a stance that may be politically dangerous, but it's the right thing to do for the nation. The health reform passed is a good start. Yes, a start. It will need improving. (I haven't read the whole thing either...)

[Mighty Mouse]

I also am without health coverage as I chose to let my prior self-employment coverage lapse. I could not afford the $1,000/month premium for my family while I am in law school.

That being said, there are things that government does well and only they can provide. Defense among a few. However, when we start to rely on government to evenly distribute our resources, we should demand efficiency and responsible spending. Have the politicians in DC shown this ever? So why should we trust them to administer the reform and the additional $1 trillion cost any differently?

Show me that you can spend what is already being collected efficiently and responsibly. We are already giving the government ~1/3 of our income to handle the country's needs. Prove that the additional money won't be wasted.

Still on page 78. Hoping for more over the weekend as well.

[LGM]

Saw this and thought of you guys...

[Mighty Mouse]

Social Security in crisis. Medicare in crisis. Health care in . . .

[Ice mom KT]

I think this says enough.

[44]

Social Security in crisis. Medicare in crisis. Health care in . . .

Social Security in crisis? Huh? Where do you see a crisis? We just need to increase the age of eligibility. When it started you became eligible at 65 and average life expectancy was 62 years. If we change eligibility to age 68 or 69, where's the crisis?

And Medicare and Healthcare in crisis? OK. I'll give you that one.

But, why is it in crisis? Might part of the problem be the 7 trillion dollar program signed three years ago that gave seniors free prescription drugs and did nothing to lower costs. Who signed that program? Which party? Did you complain then? Did you wear your 'Don't Tread on Me' t-shirts back then? And laugh at your ignorant cartoons? And kick and scream about deficits and future burdens back then?

No, you didn't, did you?

You voted for McCain and Palin, right? And supported that party again, didn't you? Good vote. Palin was a smart choice. Republicans definitely showed you how good they were at managing the countries finances and fixing healthcare over the last 8 years, didn't they? Those are the issues that are important to you, right? Fiscal responsibility. Improving healthcare. Reducing the deficit.

So, yeah Medicare and Healthcare are in crisis. And that's why I'm happy Obama and the democrats had the good sense and the balls to do something about it.

You, on the other hand, appear to not have the sense to see that your party has zero credibility on this topic, a track record to be ashamed of, has lathered up all you knuckleheads into a frenzy with BS spin about death panels and socialism and government takeover and increased costs and liberty and marxism and...

32 million had no coverage. You could lose your coverage if you got sick. You could be denied new coverage if you had pre-existing condition. Costs for insurance and healthcare were spiraling out of control. The system needed reforming.

Your party had many, many years in power when you could have tried to do something about it...anything. And your party did NOTHING. No, they did worse than nothing. They passed a prescription drug bill that made the problem worse.

And you said nothing then.

And you continued to support them.

And you voted for the Bush administration again.

And argued for wars in Iraq and spending increases and tax cuts.

And you said nothing about wanting to reform healthcare, or get budgets in check...

And then you voted for that party again. You voted to put Sarah Palin a heartbeat away from the presidency.

And NOW.....NOW....you complain about a reform bill? Now you're suddenly about doing it right? Now you are the expert on how to fix healthcare and have better ideas on how to do it?

No, now, you're just a foolish, hypocrite without the sense to know you're being played by a party that only truly cares about taking care of the rich and business. That and making sure racists are lathered up about immigration and black presidents. And that 'red blooded freedom loving americans' are lathered up about a government takeover. And that the religious are lathered up about death panels and atheists and abortion.

This law takes better care of the 32 million that are uninsured. This law stops insurance companies from the BS practices of denying coverage or kicking people off the plans when it would be costly to provide them care. And this bill lowers the cost of healthcare and helps reduce our deficit.

Those are the facts. You've been led to believe otherwise by a party that plays you like a violin. And you come off looking like a hypocrite and a tool.