ReagentX - Hey Nineteen.....!

[get some]

i should clarify a bit more...

i am not in favor of only running stock maps. that sounds dreadfully boring to me as well. what i am suggesting is incorporating a few of them into the rotation. cranium crater and medulla mesa provided some spine tingling epic battles in past PSLs as well as one or two of the frantic stock maps. for pick up games, i wish i never saw these maps again...but the dynamics of a well played PSL match are much much different and i still think some of these stock maps would be a ton of fun.

of course, it wouldnt be terrible to not have stock maps ever show up in PSL again. the notion that i am putting forth is that the trend seen in recent PSL maps is one that leaves many aspects of well played team scrum out of the mix. in particular, too many maps this past season seemed to have such extreme rises and falls in the terrain with such frequency that if an opposing tank was even 5 tank lengths ahead it became impossible to track and shoot them down. didnt matter if the whole opposing team was chasing them. the terrain itself was cover enough that an easy goal could be had and often was. i played on all the maps in pick up games...and they are all fun in that format, but some of the more extreme terrain was terribly dissatisfying in a PSL match. keep in mind that i say this as both a benefactor and victim of such plays and even when i was the one pulling away with the scrum i often thought "well this is kinda lame".

i am also not opposed to trick goals. i just prefer the ones that had to be discovered through creative use of terrain rather than launching oneself above the fray via an arrow or bounce pad. even as a defender, i got enjoyment out of Big Show or Breaka using a slight hump in the terrain taken at the right speed and angle to vault themselves above the pack and into the goal. it was typically skill and effort that required a trick goal to be executed. but i will say that i dont see this as having a major impact on the overall play in current PSL. its been addressed in the past and i think all the modders are fairly conscience of not being too overt in lining arrows and bounce pads directly up with the goal.

it does seem that use of arrows has tipped toward the extreme in the sense of moving a player across the map however. and i say this with some conflict in that i know taking an arrow that vaults you across the map in some ridiculous fashion can be alot of fun (i do like it). but it seems more often than not to result in a lame play, whether that be the defense easily snatching the scrum and scoring uncontested or the scrum carrier leaving everyone far behind in the dust and scoring an easy goal...both results being of the lame variety imo. in contrast, an arrow that accelerates a player THROUGH the terrain rather than OVER it can really add to the game play with far fewer lame plays as a result.

i do have to disagree that players are generally much better shooters than they were "back in the day". some may be but i dont see it as a rule of thumb. when the TBM community merged with the PSL community, it only took a couple of seasons before the disparity wasnt much of an issue. scrummers showed shooters what it meant to run a scrum and tbmers showed scrummers that you couldnt get by without using your gun. it balanced itself out by season 9 or so. at that time, there were some truly dominant shooters...Bolo, Prof, Tank Or to name a few. playing against those types forced you to elevate your game quite a bit and as a result i believe defense, blocking and passing became essential to the game if you had any hopes of winning as a team. i actually think the quality of shooters has slightly decreased overall due in no small part to the types of terrain being seen in PSL matches now. fewer areas that are flatter and more wide open puts much more emphasis on possession of the scrum (which can be greatly effected by the randomness of spawns) than it does on the need for accurate shooters. add to that that some of the maps that exhibit more extreme terrain and the gun becomes useless if you are not within a couple tank lengths of the scrum carrier.

now i also want to clarify that i am not interested in returning to a previous time when the game was "better". i am not trying to pull a sluggy or a cadc here. i am just trying to make an observation and put it to debate in the interest of improving play for everyone. over the years there have been a host of improvements that came out of player suggestions and healthy, informative debate. i am also not interested in being critical of anyone who has contributed to the growth of the game...especially those who do so in a fashion that i am not capable of, such as all the hosters and modders. i am simply offering suggestions based on my own personal experience.

i realize that the game is always changing and that new blood is coming into the mix. all of which is a good thing. in the end, the majority opinion will win out and i am ok with that.

sry for the long post...i feared if i was not a bit more clear with where i was coming from that the discussion wouldn't take a constructive direction. i am very interested in the opinions of all concerning these topics and if my view proves to be in the minority then so be it.

regardless of all of this i stand by the fact that Roo rocks.

[Reagent X]

Thanks for the opinions. Keep 'em comin'. It is very helpful to hear what people want to see and why.

[Bolo]

For me the size of the map is a big factor. The large maps make lucky spawns more commonplace and the added arrows decreases this to an extent. Still if you dont spawn by the flag or a arrow going the right direction, you probably wont get there in time. Small maps are great for 2 on 2 but for 4 on 4 it seems that it comes down to camping and bming at the goal. Medium sized maps such as the stock maps are perfect for 4 on 4 and for the most part that is what we all seem to prefer. I am SICK of stock lush and i wouldnt want to see them in psycho. If it were up to me, each and every map would be completely new as to add a new element of skill to a game with top notch players. I also like rough terrain so that you can drive the scrum more than 5 seconds without getting shot down. This is psychoscrum not SEAL school. Learn to shoot in the air!

il check out what roo has when i get time. more later...

[wOOt]

I guess the thing to do would be to categorize the maps because I am really confused now. Yes I like roo maps and don't like the escape arrows. And as far as the arrow to a pad to a rock and into a goal there to my knowledge has never been a trick like that in PSL maps. Rx purposely makes sure that map selection does not get that crazy. If it happened it was total luck.

Let me clarify what you guys think are escape arrows in which Bolo recognizes as more than. When roo and I both mod a map the arrows are placed near spawn points so that the person spawning is able to get back in the action if the goal being played is across the map in a reasonable amount of time.

When roo and I mod we have the re-spawn in mind the possible air goal and proper direction the arrow needs to be directed also the rocks and tree's have not been placed so when modding we need to keep that in mind also.

Also on the maps that were modded for PSL 18 by me all had multi directional arrows. Dazzle created a script that would make the 4 way a 3 way or 2 way and works great. I used the 2 way on 3 of the maps.

My idea is simple, I think the best thing you guys could do for the community is let me give you a map/maps (each one of you) and you mod it.

The process is very simple download mod wiz and get to modding. There are direction in mod wiz which tell you what key sets spawn points/goals aka spawn points/arrows/pads/tree's/rocks. And then you can send it to me ill throw my server up and let the mass's play it so we can have a better idea of what your looking for.

I have 7 lush maps that are stripped to the bone, maps that no one has seen that you guys could mod, how bout it wanna give it a go?

I'm really not trying to be a smart azz here I just need some input as to what the ideal PSL map should look like.

Oh as for the terrains having inclines and declines and hills and valleys, Rx asked us to make them in that like that because the flat terrain was getting old and boring.

So gimmie a holla if's ya hillbillies want to mod a map, or e-mail me and I'll send ya one.

Give a h00t and Love a w00t.

[Rooster]

Meh! And I said I wasn't gonna post
Let not let this degenerate into an argument.

First off all of you are semi-right and all of you will be heard. Let me explain my philosophy and perhaps that would address many of your concerns.

1. The size of the maps - as dictated for league are to be as close in driving time to stock maps
Cranium is approximately an 18 x 18
In each series I did for PSL I included 18x18 and 15x15 map, and the occasional 20x20 (frantic size)

2. Arrows are dictated by the terrain and the spawns
My aim, right or wrong was to allow no more than 8 seconds to return to the action. Hence a spawn on the far corner had the option to boost to the opposite edge. If not with a single arrow then one that led you to a boost that did.
(I cut my teeth on MM and dash but sometimes I just
got frustrated driving 20 seconds to get back into it)

3. Trick goals - I had a hard and fast rule about trick goals in the past. Max 6 per mod. Mind you, the ones i intentionally set are not easy. But as I explained to GS sometimes its serendipity, the best place for an arrow just happens to line up with the most level place to set a spawn.
Furthermore I would mention not only did all the PSL maps I made in the past include the 6 but that only on rare occasions did anyone actually use one in a match. Who has the time to set up?

Also the fact that the series is new starts everyone
at the same level. With the maps hosted before the season starts and a week before each game gives ample opportunity to practice each map. Those that learn do better....its a fact. Those who don't practice complain.

My two cents on combing thru the 100s of maps
Most were not created with scrum in mind.
I would comb thru past seasons if at all

@Rx theres the remodded (by me) MM and Dash series I sent last spring to consider as well.
With the new ones I sent and those you have 21 un-played missions to choose from.

@ ALL - lets have some fun out there
Have a great season everyone!!!

[KKB]

I agree with Smacky...

Air goals just suck... kinda like NBA vs. College basketball. Dunk-o-rama isn't necessarily a sign of skill.

I miss the Psycho Scrum League...